tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post6096025216178362844..comments2010-08-07T15:27:39.170-05:00Comments on Challenge Math - SBISD GT Book Study: Session 2 - Question 2atxteacherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15216583790234498239noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-83998154003099876292010-07-07T13:31:15.053-05:002010-07-07T13:31:15.053-05:00I agree that our GT students and our high achiever...I agree that our GT students and our high achievers that that the Pre AP math classes do not need a lot of practice the same problem. Some of them do need to learn what to do when the solution steps are not given straights out. They need practice t with how to stick with the hard problem and not give up and to try some alternate solutions. I like the problem like on page 114 number 5. Where some of the information is missing and new way has to be found before the problem can be solved. I also think the students will enjoy the way those solutions build on each other. Like problem 8 on page 115 for perimeter then problem 9 on pages 127 with area and number 2 on pages 163. These skill will be used again in high school SAT and AP test.Marlo Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18132644486954256919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-39499090378084832112010-06-26T16:51:48.815-05:002010-06-26T16:51:48.815-05:00In response to PKassir's response to me, and t...In response to PKassir's response to me, and the conversation that followed it about the district PSM by nlopez and kohlerj, I no longer give my students the model with the separate boxes, it is simply one large box with the five steps outlined down the left of the page. However, since I teach 5th grade and still have students that initially learned the model with the boxes, many of them draw them in anyhow, even though I've stressed to them that it's a cyclical process and as long as the five steps are all present, they are fine. The rubric used requires that a student expand on their thinking and communicate using good math vocabulary. I find that the more challenging a problem is, the better opportunity I've provided the students with to be able to do this. If I give too simple or straighforward a problem, the communication piece typically is lacking. I just wish the grading guidelines weren't so tied to the problem solving model and corresponding rubric and allowed for more variety, although I guess it is a good way for the district to standardize us from campus to campus. I know that there is a "Secondary PSM" that is basically the same five steps as ours in a little more advanced wording, but I don't beleive they are tied to using it the way we as elementary teachers are.susanmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-28633259013084696032010-06-25T00:05:10.009-05:002010-06-25T00:05:10.009-05:00I agree with Katie Kavanagh's comment about GT...I agree with Katie Kavanagh's comment about GT students only needing a few examples for practice b/c the gifted kids don't need repetition once they have mastered a concept and that's why this book is perfect for their small group challenging them to go deeper.RCampananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-29585782138816099192010-06-24T23:45:19.296-05:002010-06-24T23:45:19.296-05:002) I think Zaccaro’s method would be appealing to ...2) I think Zaccaro’s method would be appealing to students gifted in mathematics for several reasons: The chapters are short and sweet with various level of difficulty that would satisfy and challenged their curiosity. The author begins each chapter with an engaging story that gives a focus of the concepts to be taught, then it moves into the concept with a brief illustrative explanation given some room for intellectual frustration and then into different levels of practice. <br /> I love that the problems are very well thought and applicable to everyday life (I agree with bratliff’s comment on 6/24)RCampananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-66240397671675664522010-06-24T23:12:36.945-05:002010-06-24T23:12:36.945-05:00In response to ndeans... that is a good point abou...In response to ndeans... that is a good point about the author giving background and history for the math concepts. I think that gt kiddos would really like to know why and how these concepts came to be. I think he also leaves them wondering and wanting more of the problems.bratliffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-4171181175309821202010-06-24T23:05:02.528-05:002010-06-24T23:05:02.528-05:00The author's methods of teaching or explaining...The author's methods of teaching or explaining concepts is very unique and fun for the gt kiddos. His methods are fun with all the illustrations to go along with the problems. The author's approach to taking these math concepts a step farther than we would teach them to the non-gt kiddos is really great and I think gt kiddos would really jump on the boat with the processes. The extensions are very well thought out and applicable to everyday life.bratliffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-30149282128947599262010-06-24T22:26:56.381-05:002010-06-24T22:26:56.381-05:00In response to CKohl on June 24th, I agree with wh...In response to CKohl on June 24th, I agree with what you said about not having a single approach to solve problems. GT students are natural problem solvers. Problems given in the book give them the opportunity of using different methods, and get creative.SDawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-51147473052885233852010-06-24T19:51:18.201-05:002010-06-24T19:51:18.201-05:00Response to SusanM and PKassir on June 18 & 20...Response to SusanM and PKassir on June 18 & 20- SBISD problem solving model<br /><br />This is in reference to the discussion about the problem solving model... When I first taught primary- we did the model step by step with the boxes. We were later encouraged to not tie any of our kids to the boxes. We still discussed the steps, but they were just listed to the side. Too many students were getting too wrapped up in the model and weren't growing as problem sovlers. I could see this as a huge disadvantage to intermediate gifted math students. While I still discuss the steps of the process and the importance of the answer statement, I am no where near as tied to the model's steps. I don't know if that was just from our former SIS, or the direction that we're all going.CKohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12218582181573792567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-46418293335430003332010-06-24T19:45:52.688-05:002010-06-24T19:45:52.688-05:00In reponse to ReneeR on June 21 (who was respondin...In reponse to ReneeR on June 21 (who was responding to PKassir)<br />I know that all gifted kids get frustrated doing the same basic math problems over and over- the greatest thing about this book is the levels. Students are more likely to do multiple problems at differing levels. Gifted students thrive more on the quality of the problem, not the quatity.CKohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12218582181573792567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-78931684998802126092010-06-24T19:40:44.194-05:002010-06-24T19:40:44.194-05:00I think that students that are gifted, and have ma...I think that students that are gifted, and have mastered on grade level math material, would love the author’s methods. The author breaks down upper level mathematical concepts and processes to a level that younger students can understand. Of course they need to have mastered the basic part of the concept to go further. Math is used everyday, so why not go deeper into concepts with students that are completely capable of doing so. To students who do well in math, problems are just a game. Even though challenging at times, there is so much satisfaction in solving the problem correctly. The author’s methods also push the gifted student to look at math at much more complex points of view. It is not a single approach method, which they have to do over and over. Once they understand the concepts, gifted students want to find creative ways to solve problems.CKohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12218582181573792567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-39942354722042978082010-06-24T19:15:10.264-05:002010-06-24T19:15:10.264-05:00I agree with PKassir's comments on June 17 tha...I agree with PKassir's comments on June 17 that GT kids like not being forced to use a specific problem solving strategy. They will often come up with a method that makes sense to them and many will only show the amount of work necessary to solve the problem.My own daughter who is a GT student often complains about having to solve problems the way the teacher wants it done and not the way she would do it.ndeansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-87629244685587241092010-06-24T16:55:23.446-05:002010-06-24T16:55:23.446-05:00My GT students would like this author’s methods be...My GT students would like this author’s methods because he makes it real world and challenging. I like the way he gives some history and background information for the various concepts. The examples provide the students with enough information to build a foundation to solving the various levels of problems.ndeansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-7508166999105817272010-06-24T08:17:31.016-05:002010-06-24T08:17:31.016-05:00I agree with PKassir's comment about only need...I agree with PKassir's comment about only needed a few examples for practice b/c the gifted kids don't need repetition once they have mastered a concept.Katie Kavanaghnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-71463719858514131782010-06-24T08:16:31.849-05:002010-06-24T08:16:31.849-05:00I think students identified as gifted in Mathemati...I think students identified as gifted in Mathematics will enjoy Zaccaro's methods because they are quirky, connected to real-world situations and stories, and they have several different levels of questions, so they can start small and build up.Katie Kavanaghnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-49693279496822181642010-06-24T07:49:11.587-05:002010-06-24T07:49:11.587-05:00I think the kids will enjoy Challenge Math because...I think the kids will enjoy Challenge Math because Zaccaro includes interesting introductions to each topic that are rich with neat facts not typically taught, Zaccaro's topics are relevant to the kids' lives, Zaccaro includes humor within the characters' dialogue, Zaccaro requires the students to independently make many connections in order to successfully solve the problems, and Zaccaro made the problems quite challenging to solve.SadloKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-121951640961178962010-06-23T16:47:37.127-05:002010-06-23T16:47:37.127-05:00In response to PKassir,
In middle school, there i...In response to PKassir,<br /><br />In middle school, there isn't a lot of consistency in which problem solving problem method is used. Although most teachers have the posters in their rooms, I find it not implemented very consistently. We used to try Problems of the Week where students did one step of a more complicated problem each day, but time constraints and schedule changes have made this more difficult. In addition, I have noticed that some grade level teams make up their own strategies that are more TAKS focused.Kohlerjnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-52612994373653496562010-06-23T16:22:03.211-05:002010-06-23T16:22:03.211-05:00I think that most of my GT students would like the...I think that most of my GT students would like the level of difficulty of the questions instead of the usual worksheets or problems from the math textbooks. Some of these questions are ones that you can really sink your teeth into for awhile and come up with multiple approaches. So many of our GT students love this problem-solving freedom and use it freely in OM competetions. Yet in the classroom, they are often confined to the one method presented by the teacher or the book.<br /><br />The lack of structure is definitely refreshing, but I think I would use this book more as a supplemental for problems than just allowing kids to use this book. There are a lot of concepts that students would miss if they focused solely on the methods presented in the book.kohlerjnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-29885402117329743332010-06-23T14:25:47.533-05:002010-06-23T14:25:47.533-05:00In response to nlopez's comment I agree that t...In response to nlopez's comment I agree that the students would like the author's methods for the very same reasons. The format and organization with the story at the beginning, the humor and the relevant connections or common mistakes are very appealing and would work for a student or students working their way through the math concepts.CMerrifieldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-88113714995185802912010-06-23T14:08:02.221-05:002010-06-23T14:08:02.221-05:00I think the author's approach is refreshing. S...I think the author's approach is refreshing. Students could work on this independently or with a partner by the topic or use it as a resource when looking for particular type of problem almost like looking for a recipe in a cookbook. It is very concise and clear and with the cartoons imbedded it makes it very student friendly. I am anxious to try it with some of my talented math students to see what their responses are. It should be interesting and I suspect very positive.CMerrifieldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-87677001875134131602010-06-23T08:28:31.993-05:002010-06-23T08:28:31.993-05:00In response the ReneeR on June 21st, I agree that ...In response the ReneeR on June 21st, I agree that GT students love challenges through the varied levels of difficulty. Author also provided "Super Einstein" problems which worth three Einsteins on page 127 and 151. I can see GT students working on those first once they reach the Einstein level.SDawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-30308937877624479212010-06-23T07:37:47.838-05:002010-06-23T07:37:47.838-05:00I agree with nlopez's response that gt kids wo...I agree with nlopez's response that gt kids would enjoy the comical character and the way that the problems are presented. I think it is scaffolded in its delivery and many of my students would love the challenge with problems are entitled "Einstein Level"- they will soon find out!!!Sharon G.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-77054810081261972522010-06-23T07:22:28.415-05:002010-06-23T07:22:28.415-05:00I think that GT students would enjoy the challenge...I think that GT students would enjoy the challenge of the way Zaccaro uses different strategies/methods to get children to think about the problem. The openness of ways to solve it would be challenging and intriguing to gt students. I think they would enjoy the challenge and freedom to come up with different ways of solving problems and learning how other students think and reason.- Sharon G.Sharon G.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-31266085270121619062010-06-22T15:49:29.046-05:002010-06-22T15:49:29.046-05:00In response to SusanM on June 18th. I agree with y...In response to SusanM on June 18th. I agree with you on all your reasons why a GT student would benefit from this approach. I completely agree and support #2- Zaccaro gives the child just enough information and leaves some element of exploration and analysis up to the student. I feel he also allows the student not to just answer the question but to question the question.sluthernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-40685401226642351552010-06-22T15:26:00.133-05:002010-06-22T15:26:00.133-05:00I think the GT student would like the approach of ...I think the GT student would like the approach of Zaccaro because he connects it to other interests and factual information for students such as astronomy. His methods for asking questions isn’t just one way to get the solution, but it allows the GT student to explore and solve the problem in multiple ways. Also, he allows children to start at different differentiated levels so that all GT students can feel success and explore at their own rate.sluthernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1811268622721218650.post-211381287672757452010-06-21T20:54:24.769-05:002010-06-21T20:54:24.769-05:00In response to SusanM: I agree that the elements o...In response to SusanM: I agree that the elements of exploration and analysis fuel the imagination and a create a desire to learn more about a topic.tatumtnoreply@blogger.com